Just popping in to say that I'm ready to work on building that new kind of social movement once this is over. I still think we can — in fact, now more than ever. It feels to me that it's as though there are so many such people and movements already, working to knit a new way of life for themselves and for all of us. The problem is that it's like we're creating a billion little washcloths rather than one huge, enveloping blanket made of all these colorful squares. My question is how do we engender the connections needed to build that blanket while still retaining the independence and intimacy of each little square? Or, to use an earthier metaphor, how might tending our little garden plot be a part of reclaiming and regenerating land and ocean everywhere from the forces that have co-opted it? (FYI I still haven't read your book - been too sick - but am really looking forward to it.)
I very much feel the same Allison. Although I’m over here in the UK, I wish to do all I can to build a new way of being. We need this now more than ever.
We really do — I think this has been obvious to many of us, like Daniel, for a very long time. But it’s now become clear to almost everyone. Which, despite the noise and chaos and polarization, make me believe that it’s actually more possible than ever before. So here we go. ❤️
Yes... really this is what we need to do, and in fact, you are right that this has been my life's work. I made a first attempt with The Evolver Social Movement. So many great minds contributing here... we can work on it together, whatever happens in this election.
Hey Daniel, I always appreciate that you take time to respond to your readers. And there's some good points being made here that i ( and probably many others) can agree with. But one of the things that i have found in your (s)election* analysis + activism that imho requires deeper research is the Ukraine war / issues. And Timothy Snyder as a go-to resource on that is highly problematic !
TS, from what i have examined ( in a very limited way), never seems to concede that the US policies have been extremely aggressive in the former Eastblock countries, of which endless evidence exists. One can probably say that holding a position such as the "Richard C Levin" ( a friend of the Bushes ) professor at Yale, that he more or less follows closely the US foreign policy strategies in the region that he has become the pre-eminent academic spokesperson for. There's so much to debate in his positions that i wont have time to elaborate in detail on, but it seems like TS, along with US oligarchs and war machine/industry faithfulls, have this wild and reckless notion that is just fine-and-dandy to throw any and all Ukrainian lives under the bus to weaken or destroy the Russia state. ( ie. "Russia must lose", a quote from TS, rather than negotiate ) Yes, Russia's another oligarchic empire, but perhaps really not Sooo different to US-style Billionaire-backed presidencies, senate and congress, which has perhaps better window dressing and PR and with a few token independents who don't take corporate lobby money. You also mention Chechnya... i have no expertise, but it does remind me of Chomsky's work on discussing the wars and competition over the Caspian Basin during the Balkan war(s). This article looks like a reasonable reminder of the conflicts there and the whys and hows and the plentiful meddling in other's backyards... ( not thoroughly scrutinized, but just an example to find to researchers more critically-inclined than the star-spangled Snyder-types. https://www.eurasiareview.com/11092023-cooperation-of-cia-and-al-qaeda-in-chechen-wars-analysis/
You make good points. I do feel there is a massive difference between a society that entirely suppresses dissent and freedom of thought/conscience, like Russia today, and one, like ours, that allows for it, even in limited forms. I also feel that an imperfect Democratic society that maintains, imperfectly, the rule of law is preferable to a dictatorship/oligarchy/kleptocracy that ruthlessly represses its people and drains them of everything. Despite CIA and KGB involvement, I think it is clear, as Simon Ostrovsky also believes (see interview), that the Ukrainians overwhelmingly want an (imperfect) "open society" with (limited) choices around self-determination, cultural and religious freedoms, etc. They are willing to die for this in large numbers, proving its importance to them. It is not us throwing their lives under the bus (unless we abandon support of them as we will under Trump): They are fighting their own Revolutionary War 1776 against Russia, which is an imperialist monstrosity ruled by an iron-fisted psychopath. I've spoken to many Ukrainians who, themselves, stand by this assessment.
Hi, i don't want to distract too much from your post and threads about trying to encourage people do the right thing in the upcoming US (S)election. And i mostly agree w/ you on what you are advocating for avoiding a more escalated fascism ( stateside and globally ). But perhaps later we can debate and share more resources for people to try and better understand the issues at stake in Eurasia, EU + NATO. western hegemonic fantasies which has snagged Ukraine in the (unwinnable? ) crossfire. I would strongly disagree w/ the 1776 analogies, because we ( our arts and praxis group based mostly in DE and the EU ) are speaking often to Ukrainians, Russians, Russian-Ukrainians and Ukrainian-Russians, and a diversity of other slavic peoples from various east blok countries. A quick anecdote: was speaking some months ago to the members of the band Iva Nova based in St. Petersburg. Two of the members of this band are "Russian and Ukrainian" with roots and family members on both sides of the situation. They dont want more fabricated east/west 'walls' and 'ideological camps' that will sever their dual identities and rip them apart from their families and loved-ones. They are for the end of another stupid war! And they sing some great poetic anti-war songs. In essence this dualism was probably like - at least 50% (?!) of citizens who lived in eastern Ukraine. ALOT of people living in the regions see the war as a battle between fuckin asshole oligarchs who are dragging them into hell b/c of their greedy ambitions, not the constructed narrative of rivalling nation-states, sovereignty, cowboy western freedumbs + so-called independence ( which will likely now translate to massive neo-con war-debt dependencies for decades to come ).
Hi Andrea, Thanks for introducing me to Hamilton Nolan. I agree with his perspectives. He is a good writer I will follow. I appreciated this:
"All of us who vote for Democrats need to understand what we are getting. Our feeling of moral superiority on domestic policy—we are the ones against racism and poverty! We are the ones who protect women!—is at all times floating atop an unmentioned sea of weapons pointed at millions of less powerful people outside of our own borders. Republicans are bastards on domestic and foreign policy and Democrats are nicer on domestic policy and very, very close to Republicans on foreign policy. Even among Democrats, the baseline assumption that America must have enough guns to exert our will on the entire world is not questioned. Kamala Harris may push for paid family leave, but she is not going to dismantle the United States intelligence agencies. Kamala Harris may raise taxes on capital gains, but she is not going to meaningfully slash military funding. Kamala Harris may protect abortion, but she is not going to stop sending weapons to Israel, or remove America’s drone bases in Africa, or Give Schools All The Money They Need and Make The Air Force Hold a Bake Sale to Buy a Bomber. The harshest things that America does, its most uncompromising violence, its rawest assertion of pure power over weaker people, is always done overseas, far away from where we can watch it. For generations, there has been a mutual agreement from both major parties to do what must be done to protect America’s ability to militarily dominate the world—the gun that protects our concurrent ability to be richer than everyone else, the velvet fist that allows us to extract trillions of dollars in value from the Global South and use it to raise our own national standard of living. This commitment to maintaining the global order, people like Dick Cheney understand, is more important than all the other, smaller issues that voters get worked up about. This is the tree, not the branches."
The question is what, ideally, could we do from where we are now? This is why I deeply appreciate Bernie Sanders' 2017 speech, quoted from above. He understands the reality of the brutal use of America military force. He proposes a pathway to redirecting it toward better goals.
I do think there is some legitimacy to the idea that the US, as the world's global policeman in a bygone unipolar world, prevented some if not many smaller wars (except for our own wars!). As we enter a more multipolar world, we may start to see all kinds of conflicts break out, particularly as resources become scarce. But I agree with Nolan that the main effect of the vast US military apparatus was to maintain hegemonic dominance and ensure that goods and raw materials benefited our standard of living in the US and Europe, at the expense of the "developing" world.
This is why the only "revolution" I can imagine is a spiritual one, essentially, which relocates joy and fulfillment in finding meaning through sacrifice -- but generally this is a goal that only a very few will appreciate or want.
As an outside observer to US politics, I appreciate the straightforward and cogent arguments put forward here. This reminds me of Chomsky's typical responses to the question of lesser evil voting.
I soooo agree with you about Gates and Soros being vilified by the right and in effect being a PsyOp disinformation campaign. And what is amazing is how many liberal friends here in Europe have been influenced by this memetic scheme so that they too consider Bill Gates to be the mastermind behind everything gone wrong in the world. It's amazing how memes that originate in the United States with the intent to affect national politics can have global reverberations. Just today I saw someone posting a Gates image, his face retouched to have a sickly green tone, overlayed with text spelling out his laundry list of criminal activity. I so badly wanted to object and point out that this meme was a type of disinformation and therefore skewed. And then I thought, why waste my energy? It's depressing to see how many people are susceptible to psychological manipulation. The same thing goes with Russia-Ukraine. Many liberal friends think they've broken through the mainstream narrative by discovering that Russia is the actual victim, having been pushed into war with Ukraine by the United States and Europe due to geopolitical pressures. Though the issue is complex for sure, I don't think people consider enough if they might actually be falling victim to the psychological operation tactics of the "opposing party." The fact that my Russian friend had to flee Moscow after the war started in order to maintain his sovereignty and not be drafted into a senseless war he did not agree with, says a lot about the situation . . . though I also known many Russians who think they support this war. Anyway, I digress . . .
And aside from the Ukraine issues, here's some some similar ( to DP ) very well-reasoned points about the (s)election strategies from Starhawk, the well-known veteran left community activist, anarcho eco-feminst ( witch) , anti-patriarchy, anti-wars, pro palestine rights, an ingenious anti-dystopian sci-fi author, etc etc... A good post which works to build bridges and convince the various fence-sitters, and about what we are doing whichever prez or thug gets installed next... https://starhawk.substack.com/p/after-the-election
I appreciate your tone and the way you went about responding to this question. Thanks, Daniel
Thank you! Please share with any fence-sitters.
Just popping in to say that I'm ready to work on building that new kind of social movement once this is over. I still think we can — in fact, now more than ever. It feels to me that it's as though there are so many such people and movements already, working to knit a new way of life for themselves and for all of us. The problem is that it's like we're creating a billion little washcloths rather than one huge, enveloping blanket made of all these colorful squares. My question is how do we engender the connections needed to build that blanket while still retaining the independence and intimacy of each little square? Or, to use an earthier metaphor, how might tending our little garden plot be a part of reclaiming and regenerating land and ocean everywhere from the forces that have co-opted it? (FYI I still haven't read your book - been too sick - but am really looking forward to it.)
I very much feel the same Allison. Although I’m over here in the UK, I wish to do all I can to build a new way of being. We need this now more than ever.
We really do — I think this has been obvious to many of us, like Daniel, for a very long time. But it’s now become clear to almost everyone. Which, despite the noise and chaos and polarization, make me believe that it’s actually more possible than ever before. So here we go. ❤️
Yes... really this is what we need to do, and in fact, you are right that this has been my life's work. I made a first attempt with The Evolver Social Movement. So many great minds contributing here... we can work on it together, whatever happens in this election.
Exactly! We can, must, and will. Thank you so much for all you’ve done to prepare us.
I very much look forward to it Daniel.
Hey Daniel, I always appreciate that you take time to respond to your readers. And there's some good points being made here that i ( and probably many others) can agree with. But one of the things that i have found in your (s)election* analysis + activism that imho requires deeper research is the Ukraine war / issues. And Timothy Snyder as a go-to resource on that is highly problematic !
TS, from what i have examined ( in a very limited way), never seems to concede that the US policies have been extremely aggressive in the former Eastblock countries, of which endless evidence exists. One can probably say that holding a position such as the "Richard C Levin" ( a friend of the Bushes ) professor at Yale, that he more or less follows closely the US foreign policy strategies in the region that he has become the pre-eminent academic spokesperson for. There's so much to debate in his positions that i wont have time to elaborate in detail on, but it seems like TS, along with US oligarchs and war machine/industry faithfulls, have this wild and reckless notion that is just fine-and-dandy to throw any and all Ukrainian lives under the bus to weaken or destroy the Russia state. ( ie. "Russia must lose", a quote from TS, rather than negotiate ) Yes, Russia's another oligarchic empire, but perhaps really not Sooo different to US-style Billionaire-backed presidencies, senate and congress, which has perhaps better window dressing and PR and with a few token independents who don't take corporate lobby money. You also mention Chechnya... i have no expertise, but it does remind me of Chomsky's work on discussing the wars and competition over the Caspian Basin during the Balkan war(s). This article looks like a reasonable reminder of the conflicts there and the whys and hows and the plentiful meddling in other's backyards... ( not thoroughly scrutinized, but just an example to find to researchers more critically-inclined than the star-spangled Snyder-types. https://www.eurasiareview.com/11092023-cooperation-of-cia-and-al-qaeda-in-chechen-wars-analysis/
Dear Mr Podinski,
You make good points. I do feel there is a massive difference between a society that entirely suppresses dissent and freedom of thought/conscience, like Russia today, and one, like ours, that allows for it, even in limited forms. I also feel that an imperfect Democratic society that maintains, imperfectly, the rule of law is preferable to a dictatorship/oligarchy/kleptocracy that ruthlessly represses its people and drains them of everything. Despite CIA and KGB involvement, I think it is clear, as Simon Ostrovsky also believes (see interview), that the Ukrainians overwhelmingly want an (imperfect) "open society" with (limited) choices around self-determination, cultural and religious freedoms, etc. They are willing to die for this in large numbers, proving its importance to them. It is not us throwing their lives under the bus (unless we abandon support of them as we will under Trump): They are fighting their own Revolutionary War 1776 against Russia, which is an imperialist monstrosity ruled by an iron-fisted psychopath. I've spoken to many Ukrainians who, themselves, stand by this assessment.
Hi, i don't want to distract too much from your post and threads about trying to encourage people do the right thing in the upcoming US (S)election. And i mostly agree w/ you on what you are advocating for avoiding a more escalated fascism ( stateside and globally ). But perhaps later we can debate and share more resources for people to try and better understand the issues at stake in Eurasia, EU + NATO. western hegemonic fantasies which has snagged Ukraine in the (unwinnable? ) crossfire. I would strongly disagree w/ the 1776 analogies, because we ( our arts and praxis group based mostly in DE and the EU ) are speaking often to Ukrainians, Russians, Russian-Ukrainians and Ukrainian-Russians, and a diversity of other slavic peoples from various east blok countries. A quick anecdote: was speaking some months ago to the members of the band Iva Nova based in St. Petersburg. Two of the members of this band are "Russian and Ukrainian" with roots and family members on both sides of the situation. They dont want more fabricated east/west 'walls' and 'ideological camps' that will sever their dual identities and rip them apart from their families and loved-ones. They are for the end of another stupid war! And they sing some great poetic anti-war songs. In essence this dualism was probably like - at least 50% (?!) of citizens who lived in eastern Ukraine. ALOT of people living in the regions see the war as a battle between fuckin asshole oligarchs who are dragging them into hell b/c of their greedy ambitions, not the constructed narrative of rivalling nation-states, sovereignty, cowboy western freedumbs + so-called independence ( which will likely now translate to massive neo-con war-debt dependencies for decades to come ).
Hamilton Nolan has answered many of these questions in a clear, pragmatic way: https://www.hamiltonnolan.com/p/why-would-dick-cheney-endorse-kamala
https://www.hamiltonnolan.com/p/how-to-think-about-politics-without
Hi Andrea, Thanks for introducing me to Hamilton Nolan. I agree with his perspectives. He is a good writer I will follow. I appreciated this:
"All of us who vote for Democrats need to understand what we are getting. Our feeling of moral superiority on domestic policy—we are the ones against racism and poverty! We are the ones who protect women!—is at all times floating atop an unmentioned sea of weapons pointed at millions of less powerful people outside of our own borders. Republicans are bastards on domestic and foreign policy and Democrats are nicer on domestic policy and very, very close to Republicans on foreign policy. Even among Democrats, the baseline assumption that America must have enough guns to exert our will on the entire world is not questioned. Kamala Harris may push for paid family leave, but she is not going to dismantle the United States intelligence agencies. Kamala Harris may raise taxes on capital gains, but she is not going to meaningfully slash military funding. Kamala Harris may protect abortion, but she is not going to stop sending weapons to Israel, or remove America’s drone bases in Africa, or Give Schools All The Money They Need and Make The Air Force Hold a Bake Sale to Buy a Bomber. The harshest things that America does, its most uncompromising violence, its rawest assertion of pure power over weaker people, is always done overseas, far away from where we can watch it. For generations, there has been a mutual agreement from both major parties to do what must be done to protect America’s ability to militarily dominate the world—the gun that protects our concurrent ability to be richer than everyone else, the velvet fist that allows us to extract trillions of dollars in value from the Global South and use it to raise our own national standard of living. This commitment to maintaining the global order, people like Dick Cheney understand, is more important than all the other, smaller issues that voters get worked up about. This is the tree, not the branches."
The question is what, ideally, could we do from where we are now? This is why I deeply appreciate Bernie Sanders' 2017 speech, quoted from above. He understands the reality of the brutal use of America military force. He proposes a pathway to redirecting it toward better goals.
I do think there is some legitimacy to the idea that the US, as the world's global policeman in a bygone unipolar world, prevented some if not many smaller wars (except for our own wars!). As we enter a more multipolar world, we may start to see all kinds of conflicts break out, particularly as resources become scarce. But I agree with Nolan that the main effect of the vast US military apparatus was to maintain hegemonic dominance and ensure that goods and raw materials benefited our standard of living in the US and Europe, at the expense of the "developing" world.
This is why the only "revolution" I can imagine is a spiritual one, essentially, which relocates joy and fulfillment in finding meaning through sacrifice -- but generally this is a goal that only a very few will appreciate or want.
As an outside observer to US politics, I appreciate the straightforward and cogent arguments put forward here. This reminds me of Chomsky's typical responses to the question of lesser evil voting.
Well done - clear and balanced. I think my youngest daughter might need to read this, so I will send it on to her.
I soooo agree with you about Gates and Soros being vilified by the right and in effect being a PsyOp disinformation campaign. And what is amazing is how many liberal friends here in Europe have been influenced by this memetic scheme so that they too consider Bill Gates to be the mastermind behind everything gone wrong in the world. It's amazing how memes that originate in the United States with the intent to affect national politics can have global reverberations. Just today I saw someone posting a Gates image, his face retouched to have a sickly green tone, overlayed with text spelling out his laundry list of criminal activity. I so badly wanted to object and point out that this meme was a type of disinformation and therefore skewed. And then I thought, why waste my energy? It's depressing to see how many people are susceptible to psychological manipulation. The same thing goes with Russia-Ukraine. Many liberal friends think they've broken through the mainstream narrative by discovering that Russia is the actual victim, having been pushed into war with Ukraine by the United States and Europe due to geopolitical pressures. Though the issue is complex for sure, I don't think people consider enough if they might actually be falling victim to the psychological operation tactics of the "opposing party." The fact that my Russian friend had to flee Moscow after the war started in order to maintain his sovereignty and not be drafted into a senseless war he did not agree with, says a lot about the situation . . . though I also known many Russians who think they support this war. Anyway, I digress . . .
And aside from the Ukraine issues, here's some some similar ( to DP ) very well-reasoned points about the (s)election strategies from Starhawk, the well-known veteran left community activist, anarcho eco-feminst ( witch) , anti-patriarchy, anti-wars, pro palestine rights, an ingenious anti-dystopian sci-fi author, etc etc... A good post which works to build bridges and convince the various fence-sitters, and about what we are doing whichever prez or thug gets installed next... https://starhawk.substack.com/p/after-the-election
Thank you Daniel; dearly and truly!