Hi Daniel! I am curious to see if your views about the Genocide in Gaza has shifted. I’d love to see a response to the South Africa case against Israel in the ICJ from your perspective. It seems like you are justifying colonial occupation, human rights violations and genocide. Please explain more. Thanks.
Hi Aly Khan, I definitely think the ongoing assault is horrific, murderous, heinous, and over the top. I wrote in a post that I had come around to the view that it was Israel’s responsibility going back decades to find a creative solution to this as the Palestinians couldn’t. Israel had the wealth, the power and also the intellectual and creative capacity to do better. I say this yet I also sort of think that everything “just happens” like a movie and we don’t really have the control we think we have, generally. Yet we still have to be able to say when there is a failure to act or take responsibility. I’m definitely against the excess killing whether or not it constitutes genocide - it certainly is a brutal effort to push the Palestinians out of Gaza and into Sinai.
On the other side, I feel the Leftist pro-Palestinian is ignoring the barbaric ideology of Islamic extremism which we see all over that region, with the Muslim Brotherhood, Wahhabism etc. Iran has in its principles that there can’t be a Jewish state and all the Jews must be wiped out. Hamas we know about: the Palestinians voted them in with a charter that said all Jews should be killed. Hamas is basically a continuation of the Muslim Brotherhood. I also think there was broad and deep civilian support for Hamas and the terrorist operation. You can see videos of hostages being paraded through the streets to mass celebration. I can understand from the Israeli perspective it felt untenable and too dangerous to continue to allow this to fester - and on the other side, I do think there should have been a creative solution earlier. But from what I understand (and I know this is contested) the Palestinians rejected earlier partitions, peace efforts, etc.
I never thought Israel was a good idea but I don’t see going back in time and undoing it - just as I don’t see the colonialist culture in Canada, US or Costa Rica giving all the
Land back to the indigenous and leaving.
I don’t see a two state or one state solution is possible. I proposed a visionary solution in a recent post.
I also think that Palestinian national identity is a construct from after the Jewish migration and while I know it is horrible to be resettled, there have been many forced resettlements during the twentieth century due to ethnic and religious conflicts. Definitely the situation here was exacerbated because the surrounding Muslim countries, having lost to Israel and also being trapped by fundamentalist elements, refused to let the Palestinians migrate.
The Islamic culture control something like 99% of the land mass of the Middle East. I don’t think it is wrong that the Jews, after the Holocaust when 6 million of 9 million European Jews were exterminated, have a small country in the Middle East despite it requiring some people resettle. It also should be recalled that after 1948, 500,000 to 1 million Middle Eastern Jews were forced to leave their homes and resettle in Israel just as the Palestinians were removed. Even there, there are nuances and complexities that could be discussed further!
I think this is a historical tragedy of traumatized populations locked into obsolete religious ideologies fighting each other over a small patch of desert, which will be uninhabitable in 20 years if warming keeps intensifying.
I wish I could wholeheartedly join the Leftist cause against Israel. But I think the situation is very convoluted and I think the Arabs and Islamic fundamentalists are equally to blame. I also think some of the outrage over this particular situation has to do with anti-Semitism. There are wars being fought all over that region - between Muslim groups - and nobody seems to care. I recognize Israel has become symbolic of “settler colonialism,” and a simple target for global outrage. And I do think the way they have conducted this war has been disgraceful with far too many civilians killed and I do understand the Israeli army dehumanises the Palestinian population and has committed many atrocities. Perhaps relocating the Palestinians to Sinai and Israel pays reparations is a possible if brutal solution.
What do you think? I’ve gone down many rabbit holes which I want to get back to, including reading detailed anti-Semitic histories of the Jews, which gave me pause. Still I think the Jews have this deep imprint around surviving at all cost - never being able to own land, etc. So many historical and religious currents are being played out in this horrible scenario.
Ok. Well I see your views as deeply flawed from my perspective. I also don’t believe some of what you are writing is well researched. I would point you to Chris Hedges, Nom Chomsky, Nom Finkelstein and Ilan Pappé to understand the root cause and how the UN sanctioned borders were actually accepted, but rejected by Israel with increased settlements, walls, apartheid racism and violence. To me, there is deep Racism and colonialism here. While the mass murder of indigenous of North America is history, Palestine genocide is happening real time. Just because one happened hundreds of years ago, is not justification to allow this today for any reason. Also, I do not fully believe that anti semitism is on the rise. How many Jews have been killed in any other parts of the world? I would actually say Islamophobia is on the rise as kids wearing Palestine scarfs have been killed and recently an imam in New Jersey. Also, folks wearing pro Palestine scarfs are being harassed all over the world. I would say Anti Zionism is on the rise. Also, I believe there is a reason the Islamic world was and is not happy with Isreal, and you can read about Zionist violence even pre Nakba and the regional violence funded and militarized by the west ever since.
Hi Aly Khan, I am not pretending to be an expert. I am continually seeking to learn more and may change my perspective at some point. As I said, I think Israel's manner of pursuing the war in Gaza is wrong and the large-scale killing of civilians is grievously wrong. Among books related to this conflict I read in the last months were:
The State of Israel Versus the Jews by Sylvain Cypel, which is excellent.
My Promised Land by Ari Shavitt, also excellent
1948 by historian Benny Morris
Terror and Liberalism by Paul Berman and some of the sequel
Black Mass: How Religion Led the World into Crisis by John Gray
The Strong Horse: Power, Politics, and the Clash of Arab Civilizations by Lee Smith
From Yahweh to Zion - Laurent Guyen
On Palestine - Chomsky and Pappe
books by Ziauddin Sardar, esp The Future of Muslim Civilization
I've watched interviews / videos of Finklestein, Gabor and Daniel Mate, Chomsky, Hedges,
I watched "Israelism"
etc - probably more I forgot
Also Golda Meir's essay in Foreign Affairs from the 70s
Perhaps unlike you, if that is all you have read, I have been trying to read across a spectrum of thinkers and historians, not just the ones who agree with my pre-set ideology.
My sense is that Hedges and Chomsky are kind of biased at this point - too deeply motivated by their anger at the American Empire, which is justified of course, but it doesn't necessarily mean other cultures are not also prone to violence and imperialism in their more limited domains.
The problem we all have is we look at the world through our particular context and history. You are from an Islamic background - my mother is Jewish. I am not sure there is actually a place of pure neutrality or objectivity.
I think it is also worth mentioning that Israel has 1.7 million Muslims who are full citizens with the same rights as Israeli jews, wihle none of the surrounding Islamic countries allow Jews to live there or visit.
Probably both Islamophobia and anti-Semitism are on the rise.
If you are of the view that Israel does not have a right to exist and all of the Israeli Jews shold leave the area and give it back to the indigenous Palestinians, I do not share that view and there isn't much for us to talk about. I also think a two state solution is not possible at this point, and I think the fault for this lies on both sides. I also think a one state solution is not possible. So where does that leave us?
I don't think it was inconceivable for the Arab Islamic world to permit the Jews, after the Holocaust, to have their own state with less than one percent of the land mass of the Middle East, considering that is also where the Jews were from. And also as mentioned previously, a similar number of Middle Eastern Jews whose homes were in Yemen, Irag, Syria, etc were forced to resettle in Israel after 1948. Instead, the Islamic world took an absolutist stance, still the case with Iran, which is fighting to take power in the region. They refused to accept the Palestinians, creating this permanent nightmare.
But as I also said, I never thought Israel was a good idea and also avoided diving into this subject for just this reason, that it only seems to create terrible divisiveness. If the Israeli Jews were up for moving to Montana or Canada to make their nation, and the people there agreed, I would be all for it. This is a nightmare with no end in sight. I also see the Orthodox Jews as a huge problem as they have a birthrate of 6.5 and are overtaking the Israeli Jewish population by demographics.
also worth noting that there are something like 700 million Muslim Arabs in the Middle East (over 2 billion total in the world I think) with more than a dozen Muslim countries comprising 99% of the land mass of the Middle East. There are only 16 million Jews total, and I think about half of those live in Israel, a tiny country compared to most of its neighbors.
Thanks for your perspective. I guess I feel a bit sad as my story is that someone with your intellect and critique of the capitalist, oppressive, colonialist system is giving a free pass on genocide and ethnic cleansing because I imagine from what you have shared is partly due to the fact you have a connection to Judaism.
If the Palestinians are forced to move, that is ethnic cleansing. There is another way. Isreal apologies for stealing land which it was granted by the British Colonialists Empire that had no right to that territory. It reforms it extremely racist ways, where even the muslims living in the country that you mentioned have spoken up about at length. Perhaps they follow the model of South Africa, and work together. Yes, to be clear, I am not asking Jews to move, but in fact live together in peace without walls, brutality, stealing and settling occupied land that is not theirs, and a hierarchy of white supremacy. There is a history of peace between Arabs and Jews pre Israel, as one of the comments below shared a youtube video of a gentlemen's experience pre-1950 in Iraq. There is a reason jews settled in the Arab world moved to Israel and that video was great at highlight some of those points. To me, it is very different than having your entire country blown up and being forced to move with the threat of death and starvation.
I believe I sit on the side of justice, and clearly many non muslims do to. To me its clear from what is happening, this is a one sided annihilation by a superpower with some of the most sophisticated weapons and tech supplied by the West.
My prayer is that the ICJ finds this a genocide and Isreal is sanctioned, as it should be. I understand this may not happen due to politics and alliances of the judges. If that happens, perhaps that is the first step on a long road of redemption.
Also, I bet NY city is less than 1% of the US. Would the US be okay giving that up to Indigenous folks that it destroyed? And by the way, it was not the Arabs that caused the holocaust, so why are they suffering from Israel's PTSD?
I am going to disengage from this conversation now. I don’t feel it a prudent use of my life force. I also apologize for the initial question, and wanting you to be different. I thought your silence on the ICJ case was noteworthy. I did not intend this to be a back and forth in this way. Thank you for your time. With love and respect.
So... I don't feel heard very well in this dialogue. I said over and over again, in each message, that I do not support the mass killing of civilians that is happening and it is clear the Israeli Government bears responsibility for extremely excessive use of force. I find it unfortunate that you will disengage from this conversation when you choose to, after, in my perception, intentionally misunderstanding what I am conveying and not listening very carefully. I find that sadly typical of many people who have leaned into a doctrinaire Leftist perspective, who have become convinced of their own righteousness and therefore can no longer entertain nuance or complexity or ambiguity. In fact, I find it fairly true across the spectrum of attempts at political discussion these days. We are used to being confirmed in our silos and filter bubbles, and don't know how to hold space for different ideas and opinions.
Sadly, I don't think living in peace as one people is conceivable - not because of the Israeli Jews, but unfortunately because of Islamic extremism, as we see in most countries in that region: Syria, Iran, Lybia, Yemen, etc. As I mentioned, Israel still has 1.7 Muslim Arab citizens with full rights while many of the surrounding Arab countries do not have any Jewish citizens and will not allow Jews to even visit those countries. And yes, there was a long history of peaceful coexistence between Jews and Muslims previously, but not since the Jewish nation state of Israel was established -- and as I also said, I never even thought this was a good idea! However it is the situation we are now dealing with. Unfortunately, Islamic Fundamentalism / fanaticism is a real thing - some would say it is a response to "capitalist modernity," but a very regressive and repressive one. Have you looked into the work of Qotb or other idealogues supporting Islamic fanaticism, which includes ruthless suppression of human rights and freedoms, including freedom of speech and rights of women? I am sure you are aware that Palestinian television shows openly discuss the best way for a man to hit his wife, etc? Alas, this is the culture that a "free Palestine" would most likely support, especially due to its infection by Hamas / Muslim Brotherhood ideology.
Very unfortunately, across the Islamic world, there has been a tendency, when Democracy became possible, for the people themselves to choose theocratic regimes that then abolished Democratic processes, leading to a more Medieval style of governance. This is, of course, what happened in 2005 in Gaza, when a big effort was made to give the Palestinians in Gaza the right of self-determination of their political destiny. They voted in Hamas, an absolutist terrorist organization that then did away with democratic process and proceeded to divert funds received into buying weapons and preparing for war and terrorism. I don't think we can let our idealism get in the way of acknowledging this is what happened.
I wish we could simply live in the ideal world where we could snap our fingers and make this a peaceful outcome. I don't see that happening. However sometimes things do shift - as happened in Ireland or South Africa.
I still don't find the genocide framing appropriate - while I do agree this is a horrific massacre of civilians and needs to stop. But I would be happy if the IJC sanctions Israel and pressure is put on them to end this massacre.
Happy NYE! Perhaps you could re-publish your essay breaking down the awkward fit between the Gregorian calendar and the cycles of nature? I really enjoyed that one. Any new insights? It’s fun to play ‘what if’
I find your comments about Gaza to be woefully out of touch with what you say your heart is feeling. This stuff about Jews being rejected from the Middle East in 1948 is backwards. As I tried to show you by sending links to many Jewish scholars dissenting from that fantasy (Norman Finkelstein, Gabor Mate, Ilan Pappe, the list goes on), including Israelis themselves who are refusing to serve in this monster expedition. Example: I sent you YT interviews with Arvi Shlain about his childhood in Iraq like this one: The Forgotten History of Arab Jews -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfDhaWlqXf8. The fact is, for centuries Jews in the Middle East got along with their Arab neighbors as well as humans anywhere get along with their neighbors. Most spoke Arabic in addition to Hebrew, they did NOT speak English. All that changed as a result of what Irgun and the other thuggish Zionists did to Palestinians in 1948, turning 700K + into permanent refugees from their homeland, while murdering many of them on the spot and appropriating their land. Anti-Zionism is NOT anti-Semitism! The bogus superiority embodied in the idea that after 2000 years this reductive vision of Jews as secular, European Zionists can suddenly invade Palestine with the blessing of white Euros (with Britain's shepherding, remember that, English speaking, white Britain) and claim it as their own in some magical appropriation skipping over 2000 years of absence. Using the excuse of Jews supposedly being "The Chosen People" is racism pure and simple. For you to hang onto the word "White" in order to reject the idea of settler colonialism is absurd. What's been going on for decades in Palestine in the West Bank is illegal appropriation according to international law not to mention torture and murder, all resulting in a two-tiered system which is apartheid. And what's been going on for decades in Gaza is worse. It's obscene to use the Holocaust as an excuse to virtually enslave over two million Palestinians -- turning them, by the way, into Jew-haters as a result of what they have suffered. While that very Jew hating is run up the Zionist flag in order to excuse the killing of many thousands of innocent children and mostly innocent adults. You can't talk your way around that, it's genocide pure and simple. The ghastly suffering visited on these people with 2000 lb bombs military experts say are never meant to be used on civilian populations, 80% of the population cornered, cowering, awaiting the next bombs dropped on their heads, people who have little affection for Hamas but accept them because the PA in the West Bank is corrupt and because of the inhuman suffering visited on them. Hamas which, you must know, was deliberately financed by Netanyahu and Likud starting in 2015 in order to frustrate any attempt at a two-state solution. Sure, Arab countries gave money to Hamas also, but that's no excuse. The Israeli leadership has said openly their goal is total erasure, pushing all Palestinians into the Sinai Desert or sending them to Argentina or wherever. Thus the ghastly October 7 killing field is no excuse for what's happening now. You with your exposure to Buddhism in whatever form should know that
Thank you again, Daniel, for another deeply thoughtful essay and all the related information. Keep going.
Your beautiful and honest evaluation of continuing in the framework of Tibetan Buddhism reminds me of the popular quote: Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water; after enlightenment chop wood, carry water. Or Joseph Campbell's description of Mahayana Buddhism comparing enlightenment to having crossed the stream to nirvana. Campbell says of this that the realization that comes with this achievement is that there is no other bank of the river, there is no river and there is no vehicle! In other words, take a deep breath and carry on. We're already there. Of sorts --that's the kick!
I also thank you and compliment you on the severity of your honesty regarding Israel's current activity in Gaza. I am not Jewish myself but grew up in Long Beach, NY where many of my friends were Jewish providing me with something of an identification with them. Not the same but enough to share your ambiguity in the face of Israel's out of proportion response and a sense of Israel's history.
You are a gift. I am grateful for your sharing it.
First off I want to thank you for the honestly of your soul searching. It’s helped put into focus my own soul searching. It’s much needed in a world that seems to reward every point of view other than uncertainty.
Speaking of uncertainty, I would love for you to possibly share in the next year, your thoughts of traditionalism vs new age pioneering vs the scientific enlightenment. Mainly because I am stuck in my own uncertainty as I oscillate between them. They all seem to miss something. Traditionalism holds complete sets of metaphysics, new age mysticism holds hope of dealing with who we are “now”, yet neither truly created who we are now which is a product of science and the enlightenment. Rationalism missed the mystical, the personal, and the psychic, yet without modern science we would still be paying witch doctors for hexes and burning witches at stakes. As a musician I’m into ideas of sound healing, yet can’t seem to find a single text that doesn’t include pseudo science mumbo jumbo that is laughable. I think so much of my interest in your work is that sense of you applying critical thinking skepticism to the scene, while also being immersed in the scene. There’s no going back, but post modernism, magic, psychedelicism, all need to bring back some of the virtues of self critical analysis and scientific skepticism. It’s like the European enlightenment has been the scapegoat (including by me) to the loss of spiritual meaning and magic in the world, we are forgetting that it also cast a light on the tricksters and the frauds. We need some of that light as we emerge into a world driven by scientific advancement. Anyway just some of the thoughts of things I think about that I find your words helpful in decoding and hope to hear more.
I won’t be able to make this regenerative future but plan to make the next one. I’ve over committed time was right now but feel this is important knowledge for me to start integrating and understand further.
Hope all the best for you and your family this next year. Peace
Happy New Year Daniel. I appreciate the trials you endure in your attempt to come to an honest and informed point of view. It doesn’t matter who we disagree with we can find common cause in facing up to others truths. Thanks you for another year of great writing. I feel lucky to get such great insights for the cost of the subscription.
Hi Daniel! I am curious to see if your views about the Genocide in Gaza has shifted. I’d love to see a response to the South Africa case against Israel in the ICJ from your perspective. It seems like you are justifying colonial occupation, human rights violations and genocide. Please explain more. Thanks.
Hi Aly Khan, I definitely think the ongoing assault is horrific, murderous, heinous, and over the top. I wrote in a post that I had come around to the view that it was Israel’s responsibility going back decades to find a creative solution to this as the Palestinians couldn’t. Israel had the wealth, the power and also the intellectual and creative capacity to do better. I say this yet I also sort of think that everything “just happens” like a movie and we don’t really have the control we think we have, generally. Yet we still have to be able to say when there is a failure to act or take responsibility. I’m definitely against the excess killing whether or not it constitutes genocide - it certainly is a brutal effort to push the Palestinians out of Gaza and into Sinai.
On the other side, I feel the Leftist pro-Palestinian is ignoring the barbaric ideology of Islamic extremism which we see all over that region, with the Muslim Brotherhood, Wahhabism etc. Iran has in its principles that there can’t be a Jewish state and all the Jews must be wiped out. Hamas we know about: the Palestinians voted them in with a charter that said all Jews should be killed. Hamas is basically a continuation of the Muslim Brotherhood. I also think there was broad and deep civilian support for Hamas and the terrorist operation. You can see videos of hostages being paraded through the streets to mass celebration. I can understand from the Israeli perspective it felt untenable and too dangerous to continue to allow this to fester - and on the other side, I do think there should have been a creative solution earlier. But from what I understand (and I know this is contested) the Palestinians rejected earlier partitions, peace efforts, etc.
I never thought Israel was a good idea but I don’t see going back in time and undoing it - just as I don’t see the colonialist culture in Canada, US or Costa Rica giving all the
Land back to the indigenous and leaving.
I don’t see a two state or one state solution is possible. I proposed a visionary solution in a recent post.
I also think that Palestinian national identity is a construct from after the Jewish migration and while I know it is horrible to be resettled, there have been many forced resettlements during the twentieth century due to ethnic and religious conflicts. Definitely the situation here was exacerbated because the surrounding Muslim countries, having lost to Israel and also being trapped by fundamentalist elements, refused to let the Palestinians migrate.
The Islamic culture control something like 99% of the land mass of the Middle East. I don’t think it is wrong that the Jews, after the Holocaust when 6 million of 9 million European Jews were exterminated, have a small country in the Middle East despite it requiring some people resettle. It also should be recalled that after 1948, 500,000 to 1 million Middle Eastern Jews were forced to leave their homes and resettle in Israel just as the Palestinians were removed. Even there, there are nuances and complexities that could be discussed further!
I think this is a historical tragedy of traumatized populations locked into obsolete religious ideologies fighting each other over a small patch of desert, which will be uninhabitable in 20 years if warming keeps intensifying.
I wish I could wholeheartedly join the Leftist cause against Israel. But I think the situation is very convoluted and I think the Arabs and Islamic fundamentalists are equally to blame. I also think some of the outrage over this particular situation has to do with anti-Semitism. There are wars being fought all over that region - between Muslim groups - and nobody seems to care. I recognize Israel has become symbolic of “settler colonialism,” and a simple target for global outrage. And I do think the way they have conducted this war has been disgraceful with far too many civilians killed and I do understand the Israeli army dehumanises the Palestinian population and has committed many atrocities. Perhaps relocating the Palestinians to Sinai and Israel pays reparations is a possible if brutal solution.
What do you think? I’ve gone down many rabbit holes which I want to get back to, including reading detailed anti-Semitic histories of the Jews, which gave me pause. Still I think the Jews have this deep imprint around surviving at all cost - never being able to own land, etc. So many historical and religious currents are being played out in this horrible scenario.
Ok. Well I see your views as deeply flawed from my perspective. I also don’t believe some of what you are writing is well researched. I would point you to Chris Hedges, Nom Chomsky, Nom Finkelstein and Ilan Pappé to understand the root cause and how the UN sanctioned borders were actually accepted, but rejected by Israel with increased settlements, walls, apartheid racism and violence. To me, there is deep Racism and colonialism here. While the mass murder of indigenous of North America is history, Palestine genocide is happening real time. Just because one happened hundreds of years ago, is not justification to allow this today for any reason. Also, I do not fully believe that anti semitism is on the rise. How many Jews have been killed in any other parts of the world? I would actually say Islamophobia is on the rise as kids wearing Palestine scarfs have been killed and recently an imam in New Jersey. Also, folks wearing pro Palestine scarfs are being harassed all over the world. I would say Anti Zionism is on the rise. Also, I believe there is a reason the Islamic world was and is not happy with Isreal, and you can read about Zionist violence even pre Nakba and the regional violence funded and militarized by the west ever since.
Hi Aly Khan, I am not pretending to be an expert. I am continually seeking to learn more and may change my perspective at some point. As I said, I think Israel's manner of pursuing the war in Gaza is wrong and the large-scale killing of civilians is grievously wrong. Among books related to this conflict I read in the last months were:
The State of Israel Versus the Jews by Sylvain Cypel, which is excellent.
My Promised Land by Ari Shavitt, also excellent
1948 by historian Benny Morris
Terror and Liberalism by Paul Berman and some of the sequel
Black Mass: How Religion Led the World into Crisis by John Gray
The Strong Horse: Power, Politics, and the Clash of Arab Civilizations by Lee Smith
From Yahweh to Zion - Laurent Guyen
On Palestine - Chomsky and Pappe
books by Ziauddin Sardar, esp The Future of Muslim Civilization
I've watched interviews / videos of Finklestein, Gabor and Daniel Mate, Chomsky, Hedges,
I watched "Israelism"
etc - probably more I forgot
Also Golda Meir's essay in Foreign Affairs from the 70s
Perhaps unlike you, if that is all you have read, I have been trying to read across a spectrum of thinkers and historians, not just the ones who agree with my pre-set ideology.
My sense is that Hedges and Chomsky are kind of biased at this point - too deeply motivated by their anger at the American Empire, which is justified of course, but it doesn't necessarily mean other cultures are not also prone to violence and imperialism in their more limited domains.
The problem we all have is we look at the world through our particular context and history. You are from an Islamic background - my mother is Jewish. I am not sure there is actually a place of pure neutrality or objectivity.
I think it is also worth mentioning that Israel has 1.7 million Muslims who are full citizens with the same rights as Israeli jews, wihle none of the surrounding Islamic countries allow Jews to live there or visit.
Probably both Islamophobia and anti-Semitism are on the rise.
If you are of the view that Israel does not have a right to exist and all of the Israeli Jews shold leave the area and give it back to the indigenous Palestinians, I do not share that view and there isn't much for us to talk about. I also think a two state solution is not possible at this point, and I think the fault for this lies on both sides. I also think a one state solution is not possible. So where does that leave us?
I don't think it was inconceivable for the Arab Islamic world to permit the Jews, after the Holocaust, to have their own state with less than one percent of the land mass of the Middle East, considering that is also where the Jews were from. And also as mentioned previously, a similar number of Middle Eastern Jews whose homes were in Yemen, Irag, Syria, etc were forced to resettle in Israel after 1948. Instead, the Islamic world took an absolutist stance, still the case with Iran, which is fighting to take power in the region. They refused to accept the Palestinians, creating this permanent nightmare.
But as I also said, I never thought Israel was a good idea and also avoided diving into this subject for just this reason, that it only seems to create terrible divisiveness. If the Israeli Jews were up for moving to Montana or Canada to make their nation, and the people there agreed, I would be all for it. This is a nightmare with no end in sight. I also see the Orthodox Jews as a huge problem as they have a birthrate of 6.5 and are overtaking the Israeli Jewish population by demographics.
also worth noting that there are something like 700 million Muslim Arabs in the Middle East (over 2 billion total in the world I think) with more than a dozen Muslim countries comprising 99% of the land mass of the Middle East. There are only 16 million Jews total, and I think about half of those live in Israel, a tiny country compared to most of its neighbors.
Hi Daniel,
Thanks for your perspective. I guess I feel a bit sad as my story is that someone with your intellect and critique of the capitalist, oppressive, colonialist system is giving a free pass on genocide and ethnic cleansing because I imagine from what you have shared is partly due to the fact you have a connection to Judaism.
If the Palestinians are forced to move, that is ethnic cleansing. There is another way. Isreal apologies for stealing land which it was granted by the British Colonialists Empire that had no right to that territory. It reforms it extremely racist ways, where even the muslims living in the country that you mentioned have spoken up about at length. Perhaps they follow the model of South Africa, and work together. Yes, to be clear, I am not asking Jews to move, but in fact live together in peace without walls, brutality, stealing and settling occupied land that is not theirs, and a hierarchy of white supremacy. There is a history of peace between Arabs and Jews pre Israel, as one of the comments below shared a youtube video of a gentlemen's experience pre-1950 in Iraq. There is a reason jews settled in the Arab world moved to Israel and that video was great at highlight some of those points. To me, it is very different than having your entire country blown up and being forced to move with the threat of death and starvation.
I believe I sit on the side of justice, and clearly many non muslims do to. To me its clear from what is happening, this is a one sided annihilation by a superpower with some of the most sophisticated weapons and tech supplied by the West.
My prayer is that the ICJ finds this a genocide and Isreal is sanctioned, as it should be. I understand this may not happen due to politics and alliances of the judges. If that happens, perhaps that is the first step on a long road of redemption.
Also, I bet NY city is less than 1% of the US. Would the US be okay giving that up to Indigenous folks that it destroyed? And by the way, it was not the Arabs that caused the holocaust, so why are they suffering from Israel's PTSD?
I am going to disengage from this conversation now. I don’t feel it a prudent use of my life force. I also apologize for the initial question, and wanting you to be different. I thought your silence on the ICJ case was noteworthy. I did not intend this to be a back and forth in this way. Thank you for your time. With love and respect.
Hi Aly Khan,
So... I don't feel heard very well in this dialogue. I said over and over again, in each message, that I do not support the mass killing of civilians that is happening and it is clear the Israeli Government bears responsibility for extremely excessive use of force. I find it unfortunate that you will disengage from this conversation when you choose to, after, in my perception, intentionally misunderstanding what I am conveying and not listening very carefully. I find that sadly typical of many people who have leaned into a doctrinaire Leftist perspective, who have become convinced of their own righteousness and therefore can no longer entertain nuance or complexity or ambiguity. In fact, I find it fairly true across the spectrum of attempts at political discussion these days. We are used to being confirmed in our silos and filter bubbles, and don't know how to hold space for different ideas and opinions.
Sadly, I don't think living in peace as one people is conceivable - not because of the Israeli Jews, but unfortunately because of Islamic extremism, as we see in most countries in that region: Syria, Iran, Lybia, Yemen, etc. As I mentioned, Israel still has 1.7 Muslim Arab citizens with full rights while many of the surrounding Arab countries do not have any Jewish citizens and will not allow Jews to even visit those countries. And yes, there was a long history of peaceful coexistence between Jews and Muslims previously, but not since the Jewish nation state of Israel was established -- and as I also said, I never even thought this was a good idea! However it is the situation we are now dealing with. Unfortunately, Islamic Fundamentalism / fanaticism is a real thing - some would say it is a response to "capitalist modernity," but a very regressive and repressive one. Have you looked into the work of Qotb or other idealogues supporting Islamic fanaticism, which includes ruthless suppression of human rights and freedoms, including freedom of speech and rights of women? I am sure you are aware that Palestinian television shows openly discuss the best way for a man to hit his wife, etc? Alas, this is the culture that a "free Palestine" would most likely support, especially due to its infection by Hamas / Muslim Brotherhood ideology.
Very unfortunately, across the Islamic world, there has been a tendency, when Democracy became possible, for the people themselves to choose theocratic regimes that then abolished Democratic processes, leading to a more Medieval style of governance. This is, of course, what happened in 2005 in Gaza, when a big effort was made to give the Palestinians in Gaza the right of self-determination of their political destiny. They voted in Hamas, an absolutist terrorist organization that then did away with democratic process and proceeded to divert funds received into buying weapons and preparing for war and terrorism. I don't think we can let our idealism get in the way of acknowledging this is what happened.
I wish we could simply live in the ideal world where we could snap our fingers and make this a peaceful outcome. I don't see that happening. However sometimes things do shift - as happened in Ireland or South Africa.
I still don't find the genocide framing appropriate - while I do agree this is a horrific massacre of civilians and needs to stop. But I would be happy if the IJC sanctions Israel and pressure is put on them to end this massacre.
Happy NYE! Perhaps you could re-publish your essay breaking down the awkward fit between the Gregorian calendar and the cycles of nature? I really enjoyed that one. Any new insights? It’s fun to play ‘what if’
I find your comments about Gaza to be woefully out of touch with what you say your heart is feeling. This stuff about Jews being rejected from the Middle East in 1948 is backwards. As I tried to show you by sending links to many Jewish scholars dissenting from that fantasy (Norman Finkelstein, Gabor Mate, Ilan Pappe, the list goes on), including Israelis themselves who are refusing to serve in this monster expedition. Example: I sent you YT interviews with Arvi Shlain about his childhood in Iraq like this one: The Forgotten History of Arab Jews -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfDhaWlqXf8. The fact is, for centuries Jews in the Middle East got along with their Arab neighbors as well as humans anywhere get along with their neighbors. Most spoke Arabic in addition to Hebrew, they did NOT speak English. All that changed as a result of what Irgun and the other thuggish Zionists did to Palestinians in 1948, turning 700K + into permanent refugees from their homeland, while murdering many of them on the spot and appropriating their land. Anti-Zionism is NOT anti-Semitism! The bogus superiority embodied in the idea that after 2000 years this reductive vision of Jews as secular, European Zionists can suddenly invade Palestine with the blessing of white Euros (with Britain's shepherding, remember that, English speaking, white Britain) and claim it as their own in some magical appropriation skipping over 2000 years of absence. Using the excuse of Jews supposedly being "The Chosen People" is racism pure and simple. For you to hang onto the word "White" in order to reject the idea of settler colonialism is absurd. What's been going on for decades in Palestine in the West Bank is illegal appropriation according to international law not to mention torture and murder, all resulting in a two-tiered system which is apartheid. And what's been going on for decades in Gaza is worse. It's obscene to use the Holocaust as an excuse to virtually enslave over two million Palestinians -- turning them, by the way, into Jew-haters as a result of what they have suffered. While that very Jew hating is run up the Zionist flag in order to excuse the killing of many thousands of innocent children and mostly innocent adults. You can't talk your way around that, it's genocide pure and simple. The ghastly suffering visited on these people with 2000 lb bombs military experts say are never meant to be used on civilian populations, 80% of the population cornered, cowering, awaiting the next bombs dropped on their heads, people who have little affection for Hamas but accept them because the PA in the West Bank is corrupt and because of the inhuman suffering visited on them. Hamas which, you must know, was deliberately financed by Netanyahu and Likud starting in 2015 in order to frustrate any attempt at a two-state solution. Sure, Arab countries gave money to Hamas also, but that's no excuse. The Israeli leadership has said openly their goal is total erasure, pushing all Palestinians into the Sinai Desert or sending them to Argentina or wherever. Thus the ghastly October 7 killing field is no excuse for what's happening now. You with your exposure to Buddhism in whatever form should know that
Elevator sounds cool.
Noble of you to do all that fresh reading on Israel/Palestine. I’ve gotten to the “it’s none of my business” tuning it all out phase.
Thank you again, Daniel, for another deeply thoughtful essay and all the related information. Keep going.
Your beautiful and honest evaluation of continuing in the framework of Tibetan Buddhism reminds me of the popular quote: Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water; after enlightenment chop wood, carry water. Or Joseph Campbell's description of Mahayana Buddhism comparing enlightenment to having crossed the stream to nirvana. Campbell says of this that the realization that comes with this achievement is that there is no other bank of the river, there is no river and there is no vehicle! In other words, take a deep breath and carry on. We're already there. Of sorts --that's the kick!
I also thank you and compliment you on the severity of your honesty regarding Israel's current activity in Gaza. I am not Jewish myself but grew up in Long Beach, NY where many of my friends were Jewish providing me with something of an identification with them. Not the same but enough to share your ambiguity in the face of Israel's out of proportion response and a sense of Israel's history.
You are a gift. I am grateful for your sharing it.
Blessing on the New Year to us all.
ah
Happy New Year!!
First off I want to thank you for the honestly of your soul searching. It’s helped put into focus my own soul searching. It’s much needed in a world that seems to reward every point of view other than uncertainty.
Speaking of uncertainty, I would love for you to possibly share in the next year, your thoughts of traditionalism vs new age pioneering vs the scientific enlightenment. Mainly because I am stuck in my own uncertainty as I oscillate between them. They all seem to miss something. Traditionalism holds complete sets of metaphysics, new age mysticism holds hope of dealing with who we are “now”, yet neither truly created who we are now which is a product of science and the enlightenment. Rationalism missed the mystical, the personal, and the psychic, yet without modern science we would still be paying witch doctors for hexes and burning witches at stakes. As a musician I’m into ideas of sound healing, yet can’t seem to find a single text that doesn’t include pseudo science mumbo jumbo that is laughable. I think so much of my interest in your work is that sense of you applying critical thinking skepticism to the scene, while also being immersed in the scene. There’s no going back, but post modernism, magic, psychedelicism, all need to bring back some of the virtues of self critical analysis and scientific skepticism. It’s like the European enlightenment has been the scapegoat (including by me) to the loss of spiritual meaning and magic in the world, we are forgetting that it also cast a light on the tricksters and the frauds. We need some of that light as we emerge into a world driven by scientific advancement. Anyway just some of the thoughts of things I think about that I find your words helpful in decoding and hope to hear more.
I won’t be able to make this regenerative future but plan to make the next one. I’ve over committed time was right now but feel this is important knowledge for me to start integrating and understand further.
Hope all the best for you and your family this next year. Peace
Happy New Year Daniel. I appreciate the trials you endure in your attempt to come to an honest and informed point of view. It doesn’t matter who we disagree with we can find common cause in facing up to others truths. Thanks you for another year of great writing. I feel lucky to get such great insights for the cost of the subscription.
Daniel, i really appreciate your open-minded, deep think approach to all the topics you address. Most unusual these days and courageous. Thank you.
Ellen Holmes