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Devin's avatar

A political advocacy machine doesn't seem to me like something you're particularly qualified to propose. There is a massive political industry fighting the ideological and organizational battles every day fueled by mountains of cash from progressive, conservative, "centrist" and many other mega-donors and interest groups.

But initiation is where I think you have a unique knowledge-set and community where you can deliver value. As you well know, in any mature religion *initiation* is just a step in a structure of rituals, practices, concepts/meanings, etc.

But why can't we have a minimum viable religion that can take the best practices from various groups and weave them together into an integrated set of content, events and guidance around the cycles of life:

* annual holidays (ex. Christmas alternative)

* life stages (ex. coming of age ritual)

* major events (ex. weddings)

Obviously this has been tried before and there are famous examples that devolve into cults -- but there are also lots of boring examples people rarely discuss like the Odd Fellows, Grange, etc which were extremely popular in the 1800-early 1900s and delivered this type of secular/syncretic community/spiritual experience alongside with health care, funerary and insurance and other health/human/social services. Book on their boring side: https://www.amazon.com/Mutual-Aid-Welfare-State-Fraternal/dp/0807848417

There are so many people delivering fantastic ideas related to aspects of an integrated minimum viable religion -- but I haven't seen anyone weave them together into something that can be practiced in a practical and functional way.

That's why I just joined the substack -- hoping you'll do just that. :)

All the best.

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JR Meyer's avatar

I don't believe you can synthesize a frankenstein religion. There is an organic maturation process that makes a tradition a tradition. It is an living organism that has evolved into what it is through a process of revelation and selection which cannot be artificially replicated. It will lack a reality to it just like synthesized meat or synthesized people. It will not be substantial enough to feed souls. It will not be powerful enough to unite a community. imo

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Devin's avatar

How many religions and philosophies began as an "artificial" synthesis of previous ones? Most of them I think. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_syncretism

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JR Meyer's avatar

I understand your point and sympathize with your intention for

this project, but I have some concerns.

First, the syncretism like what you cited came about it a relatively organic way, like when two cultural groups or political regions merged, thus maintaining a connection to place and a history. Any new religion would certainly be void of this.

Second, even if we have spiritual beliefs or understand intellectually the reality of analytical idealism, I think we operate too much from a scientific materialist lens and do not understand the spiritual worldview that was inherent in the birth of every ancient religion. We simply don’t think the same way post enlightenment. Even the way you described what we need in your original post sounded mechanical, like we just need to put these parts together and it will work. I don’t think we know can pretend to understand the unseen mechanics of a living religious tradition.

I also have many questions of this project. Is it to be a global appealing universal religion? Will it then be based in monotheism or polytheism? Some sort of hybrid? What mythology and history will it it use? Who or what events will it’s holidays be commemorating? Who are it’s prophets? Who will decide what the best parts of all the traditions will be?

I see the path to God as a path up a mountain. There may be many ways to get up the mountain but you have to pick one path, not

join the ‘best’ parts of each path. That just isn’t a reality, we are trying to hover outside of our spiritual hearts, disembodied. It must be an embodied mode of being. Otherwise you are going through the motions without the transformation that taking one of the paths all the way up the mountain creates. And if we’re thinking of injecting the psychedelic experience as the mystical aspect into the lifeless body of a modern contrived religious structure feels like taking a helicopter to the top of the mountain.

Interested to know anybody’s thought on what it would look like and contain

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Michael Raven's avatar

Devin , thank you for the clarification of what is needed and wanted.

I can tell you for certain you have come to the right place for the answers. Daniel has a very good handle on the experience.

What's needed is create as you say, to Weave a new narrative that instantly elevates one's consciousness just by reading it.

Once this new Narrative is established, which doesn't seem to far out of reach we then could promote as a New Reality for one to experience.

At know other time in our History has peace on earth been more attainable then now, more people are more opened to this new possibility then ever before.

And let tell you we can smell horseshit from miles away...

We need to create a new standard, a new U , like on all can goods , its got to be Kosher

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ST's avatar

I’ve been reading Chris Bache’s “Dark Night, Early Dawn” and musing on the Great Awakening thesis he lays out, as an initiatory process for our species fueled by the ecological crisis. It’s fascinating to read this book (written in 2000) in light of all that’s happened historically since then. 9/11 and 2008, Trump, Covid, war after war, accelerating social decay and division alongside exponential advances in technocratic/surveillance control systems, etc. In the midst of this, the ecological crisis begins to feel inevitable and predetermined -- like the apocalyptic backdrop of a dystopian stage play, a lurid setting for the cultural and psychological unraveling roiling around us. The elites seem to have completely given into Ahrimanic madness, dead set on incarnating some soulless demiurge before the curtain falls (https://bit.ly/40BzwZ0).

Bache seems to suggest that this is just going to run its course. The perinatal is a death process, maybe/hopefully leading to a rebirth. Perhaps the financially wealthy can support some decentralized systems or build some lifeboat communities, as the seeds for a future awakened humanity to flourish. I’m doing what I can in my work with PRATI (pratigroup.org), a psychedelic medicine nonprofit training providers in holding the sacred at the core of their practices and communities. I’m not optimistic that any of the superstructure systems can be reformed, or that catastrophe will be miraculously averted. But I have hope that little bands and bubbles of awakening can start to form in the liminal spaces, pockets of resistance, gardens in the storm. Maybe a couple billionaires will help out with this. If not, we’ll have to build wealth in other ways. And hope for the best.

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Malcolm Rands's avatar

I have recently been thinking my life as an eco warrior , permaculturist and international entrepreneur is now getting to a place of ‘too late’. I am proud of our achievements and the change that has been created, but.......I’m seriously looking at an adaptation to change model for as many people as possible. The current culture of ‘I want it all and I want it now’ is way too imbedded. The addict needs to have an existential crisis to change. My worry is when the robber barons take over again after this crisis, how do us peaceful monk types stop from being enslaved. Yes, I know, fairly negative for such a positive person as myself. But this scenario must be considered and explored in a open, inclusive and welcoming way, as opposed to the current survivalist model

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Jeff's avatar

Very thoughtful as always and your essays always get me talking with friends and family about these colossal problems we face. As a millennial who lives in very much the same situation as you do (small family, living within my means-perhaps in a minimalist or anti-materialist way) I kind of like the idea of simply monetizing "planet saving volunteer work" around (and here comes the potential for massive bureaucracy) accredited environmental solutions for the future, which ought to include subsidiaries to such projects, ie, contractors and whomever can get in. For instance, I could get additional income from a governing entity (be it directly tied to govt. or a special group outside govt. as voted by citizens) by volunteering to plant trees on the weekend in an area it is deemed critical or say it's my job to do so, then I should be able to accrue extra income or retirement IOUs for services that are deemed to save the planet. Or perhaps I as an individual get major tax breaks for doing so. We basically have to use the tools of capitalism to monetize or incentivize a strategic effort, one that most people can get behind because it's simple and straightforward. That could be short term until a new model of our economy develops around this concept of Earth-work, eventually, that ALL work will be justifiable this way. The real kicker is getting everyone planet-wide to find this to be a way to reward future inhabitants and their families by making it a model shared between nations. I suspect one way to organize this is creating large, decentralized funds placed by countries based on a portion of their GDP. As time goes on we can substantially measure the amount of GDP spent on legacy energy systems that damage the Earth and proportion more for richer countries to allocate towards this goal. Living in a smaller and historically diplomatic country might be more rewarding as all of the work can potentially be globally environmentally-centered at the beginning, allowing for citizens to accumulate these rewards and start the model for this new kind of economy. From the Daoist perspective, you can re-balance by raising the third world countries into becoming the heroes of the future of humanity and the planet's well being, offering them a bigger stake. I agree that progressive financial elites could do much to encourage legislation around these new ideas and begin to plan it, but we really need people to start to retrain habits, reorient livelihoods and their communities as well. Money talks.

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Daniel Pinchbeck's avatar

I like this. Have you written it out in a more “official” form? Please do so and email it to me - Daniel.pinchbeck@gmail.com

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Jeff's avatar

Thanks, Daniel. I have not. Perhaps this is worth pursuing. It's a bit like the Works Progress Administration created by FDR.

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Kyle Puckhaber's avatar

I 100% agree with what you lay out here and something I've grappled with for a while. How do we move from a capitalist system, and what system do we move to? You've encouraged me to read Oscar Wilde's Soul of a Man Under Socialism and one of the things he points out is that it is better for us (as a society) to collectively own machines that do work for us rather than a rent seeking capitalist to reap the rewards for such machines - it's becoming more clear today with the invention of machines than can "think" better, faster, without having to eat, sleep, shower, etc - that these machines should work for us as public goods so that we can spend time doing more spiritually fulfilling work - art, philosophy, etc.

One thing that governments are supposed to do is create public goods. Build roads, education systems, parks - things that don't generally have a profit motive, but are good for society. One of the problems that Jane Mayer points out in Dark Money is that the governments are funded by Dark Money interests and therefore we have government that is creating systems for the wealthy elite rather than regular people.

It's hard for a regular working class person that works 40-80 hours a week to pay attention to what their local governments are doing to improve the lives of the community. How do we move from a place where people need to work (or feel the need to work) so much that they can't focus on the things that really matter - building a community that supports the people living in the community. Education has been found to be the best thing to improve a person's quality of life, yet our educators are some of the longest working, lowest paid professions.

I recently listened to episodes 83 and 84 of the GreenPill podcast and these are topics broached https://open.spotify.com/show/0l6aXWC94dd0RA3tkKfxjd - The idea is how can we move to a world where we can focus on public goods. Episode 83 focuses on retroactive public goods - financially rewarding people after they create public goods or something that improves the delivery of public goods. We're a long ways away from being able to adequately paying teachers with such a system, but what are the rails we need to build to get there?

Episode 84 discusses MetaCrisisDAO (https://www.metacrisisdao.com/). One of the premises is that our post-industrial capitalist society has allowed us to become very specialized in creating goods and services at the lowest cost for the greatest profit. Specialization allows people to focus on what they do really well at, yet have blind spots to the externalities that cripple society in another way. MetaCrisisDAO is a community of web3 and futurist enthusiasts who are designing the topography of what the metacrisis is so that it can be addressed with the proper tools. One of the concepts is a problem well defined is half solved.

Anyway, that's been my most recent meditations on the gnarly subject of "how do we get out of this mess?" For me, these types of concepts outlined in these podcasts provide a glimmer of possibility - will they catch on? It's up to us.

Thanks for writing this and articulating it the way you do.

I'm curious if you're aware of any wealthy leaders who have made strides in necessary system change. Are there models out there that make sense and are building traction?

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Geoff Foley's avatar

And it’s a long tough road to overcome what has been ingrained in us, as a society.

“It's hard for a regular working class person that works 40-80 hours a week to pay attention to what their local governments are doing to improve the lives of the community. How do we move from a place where people need to work (or feel the need to work) so much that they can't focus on the things that really matter - building a community that supports the people living in the community.”

This has been by design. We were promised lives of leisure in the 50s until modern industrialists like the Kochs realized that wasn’t good for their future pursuits; they couldn’t allow an engaged and informed populace to take hold; one that might hold them accountable and wouldn’t be willing to go along.

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Michael Raven's avatar

I agree with what you say, however, one has the personal responsibility of instilling a meditative practice to slow things down within there own minds so they then could see new possibilities 😉

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Geoff Foley's avatar

Of course. I’ve been with a meditation coach (my fiancé) for closing in on 10 years now. But not everyone can see how easy, and important, it is to start a sustainable meditative practice while working two jobs just so they can keep food on the table and a roof over their kid’s heads. Our society isn’t designed to allow people the luxury of not worrying about losing everything.

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Martin Simonfy's avatar

I think you are right, and I am eager to see details about strategies to push such intentions forward through the mire of personal greed.

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Peter Webb's avatar

Thanks Daniel for your thoughts and putting them out there. I empathise entirely with you and have been having conversations with rich and poor these past months on exactly this subject. Where I have been living and working the last 35 years in Brazil, my path as a Permaculture teacher has been between the two worlds of have and have-nots...both connected to Nature in different points of this $$ polarity. Many poor hate the rich and the rich fear the poor. there are few real connections between the two worlds in a society where most of the wealth accumulation has come through slavery in all its manifestations, from human to $$. There are deep emotional blockages as well as the karmic ones commented by Revin Alexandria here above.

To deal with emotions and trauma from the past is a community task as our general social design, which as an ecosystem, depend on the whole; we do it / birth it together.

But as you rightly say, it should start from the top down as those living to survive only have violent revolution or submission as path to follow. (If something like a real meeting of the G7 could take place where the cards on the table were placed by ALL the families of the members (men, women and children) rather than the figureheads that meet. ) The courage to speak the truth these days for anyone high up the $ ladder, asks for initiatory courage, as nobody wants to be the first; but a group of richer folks telling the truth together would be a relief for maybe more to come out of their castles and closets. Many rich people I have met, are aware of the necessity of such moves, but it's like a private mens club where nobody wants to be seen as a 'traitor'. As we know, capitalism without consumers getting their pennies / cents in exchange for their labours, won't go much further. Someone up the top has to speak the truth as all is coming down and no ONE is to blame, but we will all suffer the consequences. Together we Can ! Thanks again and Keep the talk circulating.

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Peter Webb's avatar

If the different social classes don't start talking with each other, then the images of each other that have been created, fed and carried for so long will never be dissolved and the polarisation will tend to continue. I know we are in polarised times but having a reason to work together can quickly break down imagined barriers. Maybe as climate change continues into our private, organised and computerised lives, we might even have to, just do it ?

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Daniel Pinchbeck's avatar

yes that is what I am thinking.

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Anteros Astrology's avatar

It sounds like you're advocating for an authoritarian power structure on the left to overtake the one that the right has established. I think we're already seeing this come out of the democratic party with their Rockefeller Republican ideals. We are seeing widespread use of censorship throughout Legacy Media and social media. But escalating proxy war with Russia Well abdicating Control of our social systems to an elected foundations like the WEF and WHO. I like Christopher Knowles suggestion that the world is not run by money and power and politics but rather by sorcery. We see evidence of this with the unveiling of demonic statues around the world. It really feels like things are heating up fast to me and all of the fancy ideas that are being proposed by academics and others are not the kinds of ideas that people with real power like Bill Gates, George Soros and the many Democrats on the left who robotically forces towards the world of vaccine passports, digitized currency, censorship, and false news narratives. Unless all of these unfortunate plans unravel, as I think very well may, we will not have an opportunity to try out alternative power structures. And, even then we will be building up from a big giant pile of rubble.

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Daniel Pinchbeck's avatar

Thanks for writing but that is definitely not what I am advocating for. I don't like the authoritarian technocrats on the "left". I am against vaccine passports and CDCs as a replacement for the current money system. I think it is horrible that we have this limited dichotomy to choose from. I do think we need more coordination and more participatory democracy. I also think local currencies or alt-currencies could be useful. I think we need a new system infrastructure, like a scaffold that helps people work together and care for each other. I described this in How Soon Is Now. I also do not think that human-made warming and climate change is a fraud. I think we are in danger of driving ourselves to extinction if we don't interrupt fossil fuels emissions and shift to a lower energy lifestyle. This is a massive task and it will require community awareness and leadership that doesn't really exist at this point. It does look most likely that we will be building from rubble. A lot more to say but i can't summarize everything this morning! Hopefully in future essays.

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Anteros Astrology's avatar

Yes, I greatly appreciate your well-considered reply. I didn't mean to come off as being shrill but, at this point, I can't quite help myself. Here is why. When it comes to politics, I line up with your views to a striking degree. Where I differ is in my consideration of Chat-GPT. Chat-GPT may be the next greatest evolution in AI and information technology. I am suspect of these claims. Regardless of whether this technology is a big step forward or not, it has been unveiled at a rather opportune time. The Wizard is saying, don't look over here, look over there at all our new bells and whistles. Look at our new search and information capabilities unlike anything that has been seen before. So much excitement to keep us from looking behind the curtain. But, if we take the time to look, we can see the end of free speech. Once this speech is gone, we will never again be returning to Kansas. When the Twitter Files were released it seemed that maybe government agents, spread throughout social media, would back off. I was briefly under the impression that they were. Perhaps they might not want to bring untoward attention to themselves at this time. However, the Twitter Files story is not being covered in legacy media. In the meantime, I have been testing our current level of freedom to speak. I have been actively making semi-provocative comments on social media. It seemed that my comments were posting to various threads without problem. Suddenly though now, I cannot get my voice heard and my opinions are being actively suppressed. Comment that are relatively innocuous. I am having comments removed from YouTube and actively blocked on Twitter so that even my sister cannot see them. A new level of aggressive censorship is being rolled out. The comments I have been posting are not offensive. Unless you consider the following statement problematic, “the left-wing is now an authoritarian bulwark that actively censors content throughout the social media landscape, censorship that is now so pervasive, the public is forced to seek out Fox News as the one source of reason that is not beholden to the left wing authoritarian narrative”. I would not have made that statement two months ago, but I now whole heartedly believe it. I do not think I am the one who has moved within the political spectrum. Rather, the Wizard is cranking up his fireworks and yelling at us to continue looking over there. Well, Toto and I are off to search for the Good Witch. I fear that the flying monkeys are going to win in this movie.

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Geoff Foley's avatar

Over at DailyKos I read a diary the other morning by a staff writer about the Biden administration reintroducing the failed, and debunked, immigration policy that asylum seekers must first apply for asylum in the first country they cross into from their own and failing to do so will make them ineligible for asylum at our border. This policy was ruled unconstitutional when the Trump administration first introduced it. Now the Biden administration is digging out of the grave.

That diary disappeared from the front page within an hour, even though it was written by a staff writer. The only way to find it now is for me to go through my past comments.

And that’s a supposedly progressive media outlet. Then again, they are currently fighting against their own writer’s guild with bad faith negotiations so they can save their executive salaries at the cost of union members.

The information silo of the Left is just as close-minded as that of the Right. It also comes with an admonition of the youth bloc to “vote blue no matter who.” When the Left keeps pulling defeat from the jaws of victory, who else can they blame when the smarter, more engaged youth of today don’t buy their bullshit narratives tomorrow?

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Jessica Böhme's avatar

Thanks again for your thought-provoking article.

„In other words, system change offers a true initiatory ordeal, a quest.“ I have been thinking about the role of discomfort involved in the initiation phase a lot and wonder if such quests still work as they likely wouldn’t be a short phase, but actually require a lifelong quest. One‘s life would than have to be seen as part of a larger (time wise) narrative. I am sitting with the question how we might learn to not feel pressured into but yarn for such initations on a grand scale. Any thoughts on that?

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Daniel Pinchbeck's avatar

yes that is where we can consider the evidence for reincarnation etc... if people understood this life as one part of a much larger cosmic narrative and soul-journey, there wouldn't be such a total emphasis on material accumulation etc.

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Bigger Dreamer's avatar

Another interesting one is Deep Green Resistance - have you read that?

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Daniel Pinchbeck's avatar

Nope

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Bigger Dreamer's avatar

I've been thinking about this for years. Why doesn't the progressive plan like the conservative? There are so many issues here. I was once part of a failed startup in the 'consciousness' industry. It failed because they had an idealistic vision of co-leadership, but with no real leader effective decisions weren't made and everything fell apart. I worry that people need leadership and a strong voice - which means that to create a fair and just society, we need leaders who are actually evolved enough not to be self-centered. Which, is harder than it sounds to come by.

The other issue we face is that the current machine has not only a lot of money (think, the economy of the world) behind it, but also a lot of weapons and a fear of death. The people who are invested in it want to protect it, and have the means to do so through efficient mass murder (or war or policing or whatever you want to call it).

To actually go up against that machine competitively would take a vast effort. So, that leaves grass roots growth - the creation of small pockets that try to push the vision forward, and the attempt to grow those pockets into a societal movement to the point that the mainstream adopts it. But then what? If democracy is to live and we don't want to have to implement a 'conscious and green totalitarianism' then we have to have a good deal more than half the people on board.

The problem with this is that our time is very limited. I fear that the 50 years and billions it might take to pull off a social engineering project like the Koch brothers is just too long - if we wait that long, we are facing a dead planet. Which leaves the option of becoming serious survivalists, and starting underground cultures that can survive what is coming and possibly rise out of it on the other side with a better sense of reality and what our actions mean.

It's a good fundraising letter, though. You should send it to all your rich friends and see if they will give you all of their money, and see how far you can get with it!

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Daniel Pinchbeck's avatar

Thanks for this great comment… a lot to unpack. I largely agree with you. The left tends to be very focused on individuation and suspicious of authority / leadership. But you are right that leadership is necessary… I wrote about this in How Soon Is Now. A Great book is Revolt of the Masses by Ortega Y Gasset. Too much to unpack now but let’s keep thinking.

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Chris Hardy's avatar

Absolutely spot on! I love this exploration. Keep the wisdom flowing.

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Swamp Seer's avatar

this is one of the best essays you've written! i see so many realizations and integration of a deep understanding of karmic cycles. Like how wealth is distributed but not used correctly. The Bhagavad Gita predicted this. At the time it was spoken 7,500 years ago, there was a huge world war and all the pious leaders were killed because they fought in the war. This is all described in detail in Vedanta.

Then there were more corrupt people being put into power after that because they were the ones who didn't go fight in the Battle of Kurushektra. So these asuric qualities (greed, corruption) are connected to extreme wealth holders now because the wealth has been concentrated in families/institutions/governments/corporations who don't give back to society and instead pillage the earth.

I won't call actual humans straight up asuras because an asura is obviously what it is. If you read descriptions they can come in many species, but some of them can shapeshift. These are Rakshasyas. But I won't label a human as one of those unless there is undeniable proof I guess....I don't want to fall into the trap of dehumanizing people and falling into a paranoid trap of claiming people are non-humans....

The entire Western Myth of Progress is based on a lie. In other yugas, you could live thousands of years. I cringe every time I see someone claiming that living 100 years is a long time.

Ugh yes...this part was like church for me...

"Believers in progress note that average lifespans have increased greatly since the late 19th Century. Many more people live today at a much higher standard of living than ever before. The reasons for this, the boosters say, are science, Capitalism, industrialization, and the free market. Therefore, these are all unquestionably good; you would be stupid to question them. Therefore, these are all unquestionably good; you would be stupid to question them"

Overall, I like where you are going. Maybe people ain't ready to know this...idk...But actually thinking that the world was not "whole" before is also a myth. It makes no sense--unless you are delusional (like being tricked by a magician)--to believe that something can come from nothing. The myth is that cultures were all isolated and primitive (a whitewashed lie). That they were not exchanging culture, traditions, wisdom and goods... Read Vedanta. Read the latest archaeological finds saying that humans could make tools over 2 million years ago. Itihasa is history. Some of Vedanta is allegory BUT a huge portion of it is history. The world has been connected and interacted with each other before colonialism. :)

The reason why "capitalism" as we know it now is unsustainable...is because it's being ran by humans who have no clue as to what the truth of the past is....nor do they understand the cycles of karma and how nature's laws work through non-linear time. They claim they have wealth because of their good karma...correct...that is a type of "good karma." But they don't know that they will suffer in the future for taking wealth unethically. They only look like they are enjoying it now. They don't believe in reincarnation and so they use up all the resources in their one lifetime way of thinking. They don't think there is any long-term consequence to destroying the Earth on a personal level they do not realize that they will receive the reaction for every infraction of killing the planet...if not in this lifetime...in the next ....then they are rajasic and tamasic and don't practice balance in their lives. Out here living instant gratification lives because they are afraid of "dying." The current economic system is literally built on this one thing....so that's why it's failing....Instead of living like we are eternal which would make all of us less anxious about gimmee gimmee seflish desires.

So if you use this knowledge for your selfish desires, like knowing you are eternal, and then abuse the earth and others anyway because you "think you know the rules"...then whoops...your ass is still going to get got by your papa (going against the laws of nature). The universe as Maya, just lulls you into a glamorized stupor of pleasure to make you rack up extra papa in this compressed 100 year life span, so that when it comes back to you it knocks you way down into the lower regions of the hellish planets. Other planets have way longer life spans so it's harder to get quick results. Then even the good karma is technically working against your favor because it makes you want to stay in Maya. The more you enjoy your abuse and exploitation of karma....the more it comes back to you sooner when time distorts and you leave your body. So it's better to suffer here and sacrifice some extreme pleasures to bring balance. So once you become cognizant of this no matter if you are wealthy or poor...you can start to rectify your karmic situation.

We did not evolve from people living primarily in the forest into people living in cities. Destroy that belief. There has always been a mix of nature dwellers who are living in a more sattvic lifestyle in the woods, the plains and people who live in developed cities etc....but we know it is not true to say that indigenous people living in nature do not have wars and conflict....and then you have civilizations that are more rajasic and about consuming resources to expand the complexity of how civilizations operate etc....these different types of ways of organizing a civilization have always existed on the Earth since time immemorial. :)

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Swamp Seer's avatar

I love your work but you do not understand the full brunt of ancient history. You're getting warmer though! I can teach you about the history of Bharat and how that overlaps with all indigenous stories and histories if you want. You still believe in the colonized version of history, and the way you accommodate for that in your writing is by saying that "ancient societies had some sort of consciousness that made them more wholesome etc..." versus acknowledging that they had a lot of things...not just consciousness....that consciousness gave them access to advancements in their civilizations as well!

You are stuck in these false beliefs for some reason by not admitting that maybe it was more than their consciousness that was advanced. Because what happens if you have advanced consciousness...you create...advanced things! I think it's because you haven't fully researched enough Vedanta. It's the largest ancient library that exists on the planet. Many thinkers claim things about the history of India without fully exploring the resources that are available. And then try to derive some solutions from that. Not gonna work with me on the planet.

Culture is not bad per se. We need it. Where there is life like bacteria there will always be culture spawning from that. It's an extremely universal principle. ;)

A culture's success is based on its shared values and the people's consciousness who live under that culture. This is why people shouldn't be naive and say

"we need to get rid of identity and labels." That is genocide. Erasing knowledge of the diversity of cultures to form some fake monolithic "humanism" which is really just erasing the terms and traditions of the various indigenous cultures (and modern cultures!) of the earth who also have their values around humanism. Point blank. The term culture derives from cult. which is connected to the sanskrit term kula which is a chosen family structure that also can be based on blood relations....notice something?

The term school is connected to the sanskrit term kula. Colonizers stole indigenous ppl from all over the world from their chosen and blood kulas and then forced them into indoctrination schools to make national identity. That is wrong! It should never be that way. No one should be forced to live under a nation if they do not agree with that nation's rules or laws when those laws are based on violence and lies. It's against dharma!!! uuugggh. lol!!!!

Also, it's a stereotype to say that India is the only one with a rigid caste system. The term caste is portuguese and was introduced into India by British colonizers. Of course Indian leaders have been and are just as asuric as any other race of people. Have you ever heard of someone named....Ravana the enemy of Ram? Ravana was a king who lived in Bharat..lol..so it's not that Indian people are exempt from anything. If that were the case why would they have a library of knowledge describing how people can be in the mode of rajas, sattva, or tamas? You can see in their literature that they've always dealt with "evil" forces beyond 7,500 years ago.

India was not isolated and stagnant for years. That is so wrong to think. I would edit that out if I were you. It won't read well 5 years from now.

Wanna know who has a caste system too? America. We call it classism, racism and sexism. That is no different than the bastard version of the caste system that exists in India. Both are coming from tamas and rajas. If you are not born into a white wealthy family you have more of a chance of being poor and broke for the rest of your life. That is a caste system. You do realize that a caste system is technically no different than a classist, racist, sexist system right?

Last thing. Any culture that has duties and roles for it to function has some sort of system that can turn bad if you start to be prejudiced towards one group of people or one type of occupation. That is pure logic. It's not limited to India or Westernized societies. It's a universal principle and the Vedic literature and culture just so happened to preserve it's own knowledge better than most other cultures whose stuff got destroyed through cataclysm, colonialism, and ignorance.

And for that...we should be super interested in how and why that happened. How and why this Vedic knowledge has been preserved so nicely for us.

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JR Meyer's avatar

I'm smelling a stench on this one, with some bitter tones. You can't war against culture or identity itself. You are at war with yourself if you are. I don't think you can war against hierarchy either. War against tyranny and corruption for sure but there are some things about reality that are immovable as I see it. I find it arrogant that some grand plan we come up with right now is going to be better or less totalitarian than the other sides, or other grand plans we've tried to institute in the past. we must humble ourselves and bow down to something greater, to start.

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Daniel Pinchbeck's avatar

I think people need a vision and an idea, a purpose. The technological Singularity is a "grand plan." Transhumanism is a vision of the future. Alternatives tend to be suppressed. I recommend Hannah Arendt's book, On Revolution.

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JR Meyer's avatar

I agree, totally. I think we are still too much entrenched in materialism to come up with a master plan right now, that won't be a disaster like the other modern visions. We need a vision of the spiritual and the transcendent that we can unify on first and that contain a purpose that can truly motivate because it will speak to our hearts and our essence, and be contained in a story that we can live and participate in. I don't think we can skip this step. I also don't think we can synthesize a new religion which is why I have been trying to find a traditional religious path that is alive. I think we do need a political plan too but only after we have gone beyond the mind and mode of being that got us here, other wise we will be in the same pattern.

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Michael Raven's avatar

I love what your asking for...

In All true religions one can experiences a higher knowing of themselves. If they can't, what they believe in isn't work. There is the rub, if your unhappy and playing the victim card, your living in a sense of denial. You blame others for your reality.

It gives you a way out of facing yourself.

You feel some relief but it isn't satisfying, your life has No purpose ...the only ones that can see from "on high " are those whom have faced themselves fully have the right to move on to higher greener pastures, living in the world but not of it, doing life on a higher level...

Seeing things on a higher level is what is missing within the elements of ones own DNA. These higher genes can be instilled within anyone who seeks it out. We have the ability already within in us to change our own DNA.

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Charlotte Dune's avatar

Henry Miller said whenever he heard the word “culture,” he reached for his revolver, that the main job of the writer was to unravel “culture.” But can you be a part of it and unravel at the same time? Hard to say.

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Daniel Pinchbeck's avatar

Was that really Henry Miller? Can you provide a direct citation?

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Charlotte Dune's avatar

Ok, I’m trying to post a photo of the page, but it’s not letting me. The revolver quote is from a letter from Henry Miller to Alfred Perles and I saw it in the book Henry Miller On Writing, edited by Thomas H. Moore. I’ve written about the passage, plus his views on culture and writing habits here and there is a pic on this page: https://open.substack.com/pub/charlottedune/p/the-habits-of-henry-miller?r=8gb2e&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post

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JR Meyer's avatar

I see culture as something analogous to atmosphere. It either stinks or is healthy but you can't live outside of one. You are nurtured inside it but it is up the individual to keep it fresh, revivify it, make sure it doesn't ossify.

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Daniel Pinchbeck's avatar

That's true! I also think that something new starts up as a spontaneous revelation, and then it turns into something well-known, familiar. Burning Man is a good example. People at first were creating something entirely new in the desert. Eventually they learned how you are supposed to dress, act, which DJs are good, etc. It became about Instagram selfies, status, etc. Christianity is another example... Christ was doing something new and different, but eventually the Roman Empire assimilated it into a system of control and indoctrination. I feel the same thing is happening with psychedelics actually... There will be "professionals" and academics telling people what the experience means, defining the set and setting, and most people will then have the experience they are supposed to have... Most people are followers... they want to conform, to fit in. It is painful to break the conventions, also dangerous.

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JR Meyer's avatar

Yes I think we need to fully understand this process of cultural uptake and assimilation in order to proceed.

I have big reservations about the psychedelic movement as you stated. But perhaps this will be something the system tried to assimilate that it can’t really handle, somehow breaking apart the system because of the nature of the psychedelic. But my fear is that it will be something that will be given to the masses to help them cope with meaninglessness/depressionand make them more efficient workers, a la soma in Brave New World. I have friends who microdose for these reasons. Don’t know how effective psychedelics are for mass control, I think they already tried that back in the sixties and it backfired. But they certainly can take the edge off nihilism in order to keep trudging through the materialist nightmare.

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Charlotte Dune's avatar

Your financial minimalism sounds dreamy. I often feel overburdened or trapped by my own financial accumulation and property. At the same time, I’m too scared to live in a precarious/marginal economic state.

I’m curious how you manage this psychologically? Do you worry about your own financial future or what could happen if you’re unable to work? Or when you’re very old? Or do you just trust that the universe will provide? Was this minimalism a conscious choice or an act of resistance? Or just how you naturally turned out?

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Daniel Pinchbeck's avatar

yes i am worried about it. I think I inherited both good and bad tendencies from my father above all, who lived similarly.

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Charlotte Dune's avatar

Honestly, it’s admirable and you’ll probably be totally fine with way less stress, because many Americans die with TOO much money saved that they never get to enjoy.

I recommend a book called Die With Zero.

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Sky Otter's avatar

"they have also defined a kind of entrepreneurial ideal of esoteric mysticism." This induces in me the urge to vomit (not the good kind). Monetizing everything is the problem. Also, I disagree with Terence's blanket critique of culture. The question is what kind of culture? Is it Earth-honoring or Earth-destroying? Thanks, as always, for your whole systems analysis. We need more of this. Looking forward to Part Two.

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